The Conspiraloon Holocaust Denial Exposure
...continues over at Blairwatch, with further updates about Conspiraloons in a Panic, feeble legal threats from Nick Kollerstrom, Bloggerheads on the case, Indymedia ( with comment from Kollerstrom blaming the Jews and deciding it is all a conspiracy involving the BBC) and The Void also commenting. Update: and Jewcy and Chicken Yogurt as well
Just in, a blinding bit of research ferreting through far-right grimness from Unity at Ministry of Truth - now also on Liberal Conspiracy.
Why all the fuss? It's not the one man, Kollerstrom and his horrible views that bothers me. There will always be nutters, after all.
It's the fact that Kollerstrom - and people like him, with similarly extreme views fit so very comfortably into the so- called '9/11 Truth/7/7 Truth Movement'. They post on their forums. They come to their meetings. They fit right in.
And that's scary.
The '9/11 Truth' forum, for example, recently had pages and pages of discussion threads about holocaust with contributors busily denying it happened. Only when the blog-storm about Kollerstrom broke did they take any action. They hid the threads and belatedly banned discussion of the subject, as it was felt to reflect badly on their 'Truth movement'. Some might call that cynical.
The man who owned the site 'nineeleven.co.uk' has announced that he is kicking them off in June and retaining the URL so the '9/11 Truth' contingent can't use it any more. His reason? Anti-Semitism posted on the site.
You see, the reason I am disturbed by so many of these '9/11 Truth and 7/7 Truth' people is that it so frequently seems to come down to 'The Jews/Mossad/Zionists' are behind everything stuff - the same old lie, the same old libel, that found its expression most hideously in the made-up antisemitic propaganda The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - which Hitler went on to use as his justification for genocide. That lie is still being pushed, and people who push it are using 7/7 and 9/11 conspiracy theories as cover to give their hateful views contemporary relevance.
Sadly, many of the ''Truthers'', instead of waking up to the people who associate with them and their campaigns, and questioning their agenda are instead attacking the bloggers who outed Kollerstrom, throwing about personal abuse, calling them 'Nazis' and 'dictators, whinging about 'free speech' and generally being in denial about it all. Others have gone very quiet.
By the way, UCL, where Kollerstrom is ( or was) an honorary research fellow, knew nothing about this man Kollerstrom and his views until they were told on Friday by bloggers who contacted them. Everything I hear suggests they are on the case, and they are wholly blameless in this matter, and that they are investigating as quickly and as fairly as they can.
UPDATE: And Kollerstrom has already vanished from their pages where he was listed as a research fellow. Blimey, that was quick. Well done UCL.
Further update: 7/7 'Truth' campaigners complaining that they are being smeared as 'conspi-racists ( whilst making no effort whatsoever to distance themselves from Kollerstrom's views might like to ponder why Kollerstrom, using his online ID of 'astro3' replies to Blairwatch with a link to the 'julyseventh.co.uk' site in his name. Three times.
Two of the 7/7 site owners, 'Kier' and 'Bridget Dunne' also posting at the same time, also linking to the julyseventh.co.uk site, seem perfectly happy about this and of an accord with Kollerstrom in what he says
( which is about 7/7).
Now, I'm sure if you consider yourself to be a nice, well-meaning person with 'questions about 7/7' it must be horrifying to find that your movement contains people who are raging anti-Semites and holocaust-deniers, who happily count themselves as fellow travellers with you. The July 7th conspiracy theorists cry foul when antisemites in their number are pointed out, and say piteously there is no Holocaust denial on their site
( unlike the nineeleven site, which the site owner is closing because of the antisemitism and holocaust denial on it, which the moderators have belatedly decided to stop since the Kollerstrom story broke). But the julyseventh site has private, secret forums - we don't know what goes on in there, what they discuss, and given their associations with the likes of Kollerstrom, we can only guess. So until they actually come out and say it, which they haven't done, instead preferring to go on the attack - as well as publishing foul abuse of anyone criticising conspiracy theories - I'm assuming that they have been caught with their pants down.
If the 'July 7th Truth' people want to show that they are not conspiracy theorists with Holocaust deniers, Jew-haters, Zionist-bashers and racists among them - RELEASE THE EVIDENCE! A slogan they are very familiar with. Until then....questions must remain. Without evidence, how can we trust their 'official explanation'?
UPDATE: Back of the net
Just in, a blinding bit of research ferreting through far-right grimness from Unity at Ministry of Truth - now also on Liberal Conspiracy.
Why all the fuss? It's not the one man, Kollerstrom and his horrible views that bothers me. There will always be nutters, after all.
It's the fact that Kollerstrom - and people like him, with similarly extreme views fit so very comfortably into the so- called '9/11 Truth/7/7 Truth Movement'. They post on their forums. They come to their meetings. They fit right in.
And that's scary.
The '9/11 Truth' forum, for example, recently had pages and pages of discussion threads about holocaust with contributors busily denying it happened. Only when the blog-storm about Kollerstrom broke did they take any action. They hid the threads and belatedly banned discussion of the subject, as it was felt to reflect badly on their 'Truth movement'. Some might call that cynical.
The man who owned the site 'nineeleven.co.uk' has announced that he is kicking them off in June and retaining the URL so the '9/11 Truth' contingent can't use it any more. His reason? Anti-Semitism posted on the site.
You see, the reason I am disturbed by so many of these '9/11 Truth and 7/7 Truth' people is that it so frequently seems to come down to 'The Jews/Mossad/Zionists' are behind everything stuff - the same old lie, the same old libel, that found its expression most hideously in the made-up antisemitic propaganda The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - which Hitler went on to use as his justification for genocide. That lie is still being pushed, and people who push it are using 7/7 and 9/11 conspiracy theories as cover to give their hateful views contemporary relevance.
Sadly, many of the ''Truthers'', instead of waking up to the people who associate with them and their campaigns, and questioning their agenda are instead attacking the bloggers who outed Kollerstrom, throwing about personal abuse, calling them 'Nazis' and 'dictators, whinging about 'free speech' and generally being in denial about it all. Others have gone very quiet.
By the way, UCL, where Kollerstrom is ( or was) an honorary research fellow, knew nothing about this man Kollerstrom and his views until they were told on Friday by bloggers who contacted them. Everything I hear suggests they are on the case, and they are wholly blameless in this matter, and that they are investigating as quickly and as fairly as they can.
UPDATE: And Kollerstrom has already vanished from their pages where he was listed as a research fellow. Blimey, that was quick. Well done UCL.
Further update: 7/7 'Truth' campaigners complaining that they are being smeared as 'conspi-racists ( whilst making no effort whatsoever to distance themselves from Kollerstrom's views might like to ponder why Kollerstrom, using his online ID of 'astro3' replies to Blairwatch with a link to the 'julyseventh.co.uk' site in his name. Three times.
Two of the 7/7 site owners, 'Kier' and 'Bridget Dunne' also posting at the same time, also linking to the julyseventh.co.uk site, seem perfectly happy about this and of an accord with Kollerstrom in what he says
( which is about 7/7).
Now, I'm sure if you consider yourself to be a nice, well-meaning person with 'questions about 7/7' it must be horrifying to find that your movement contains people who are raging anti-Semites and holocaust-deniers, who happily count themselves as fellow travellers with you. The July 7th conspiracy theorists cry foul when antisemites in their number are pointed out, and say piteously there is no Holocaust denial on their site
( unlike the nineeleven site, which the site owner is closing because of the antisemitism and holocaust denial on it, which the moderators have belatedly decided to stop since the Kollerstrom story broke). But the julyseventh site has private, secret forums - we don't know what goes on in there, what they discuss, and given their associations with the likes of Kollerstrom, we can only guess. So until they actually come out and say it, which they haven't done, instead preferring to go on the attack - as well as publishing foul abuse of anyone criticising conspiracy theories - I'm assuming that they have been caught with their pants down.
If the 'July 7th Truth' people want to show that they are not conspiracy theorists with Holocaust deniers, Jew-haters, Zionist-bashers and racists among them - RELEASE THE EVIDENCE! A slogan they are very familiar with. Until then....questions must remain. Without evidence, how can we trust their 'official explanation'?
UPDATE: Back of the net
Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom
22 April 2008
UCL has been made aware of views expressed by Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom, an Honorary Research Fellow in UCL Science & Technology Studies.
The position of Honorary Research Fellow is a privilege bestowed by departments within UCL on researchers with whom it wishes to have an association. It is not an employed position.
The views expressed by Dr Kollerstrom are diametrically opposed to the aims, objectives and ethos of UCL, such that we wish to have absolutely no association with them or with their originator.
We therefore have no choice but to terminate Dr Kollerstrom’s Honorary Research Fellowship with immediate effect
posted by Rachel at 6:19 pm
And Kollerstrom has already vanished from their pages where he was listed as a research fellow. Blimey, that was quick. Well done UCL.
Fantastic! Well done everyone. I wonder if he'll still be appearing on that BBC programme.
There is a conspiracy theory about that already - apparently the reason he was outed on Monday was to do with him having been interviewed for a BBC programme.
Actually - no. It was because I happened to mention to Quarsan that I saw Kollerstrom hassling a survivor at Kingston who was there watching the 7/7 trial with me.
Quarsan decided to go googling Kollerstrom after we spoke.
The BW post was the result.
If you really want to annoy the holocaust deniers then you should link to Deborah Lipstadt's blog: http://lipstadt.blogspot.com/
She writes about holocaust denial and contemporary anti-semitism. As you probably know already, she wrote 'Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory ' and was sued for defamation by David Irving. He lost the case - the word 'schadenfreude' was invented for a situation like that.
Just an FYI.
I have an idea... why not throw a party for these holocaust deniers... in Austria, only tell them the destination is a surprise. Oh, and give them a nice goody back, with soap, a tooth brush and an idiots guide to surviving prison when you deny the holocaust existed.
Prison is too good for them. They should be burnt at the stake.
Louise, thanks, Deborah Lipstadt's blog deserves a place in history and much kudos. Philip, I don't subscribe to capital punishment or torture for anyone, but PMN-ing was well overdue. He wasn't posting under a pseudonym, he was writing as Nick Kollerstrom PhD in public forums that get thousands of hits. Bringing his institution into disrepute, big time. So, having freely published his views, he can hardly complain when they are freely discussed and brought to the attention of UCL. Who have reacted at warp-speed for an academic insitution.
A research fellowship is a gift that can be taken back.
And if UCL choose to do that, it's up to them. As a researcher, his methods are clearly shite, for starters.
Prison is too good for them. They should be burnt at the stake.
Some delightful company you keep there yourself Rachel!
And what a great syllogism - holocaust deniers post on 7/11 truth sites, therefore 7/11 'truthers' are anti-semitic neo-Nazis! And the onus is on them to prove otherwise? Didn't our Tony using logic like this in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq?
Socrates was a philosopher, Socrates was Greek, therefore all philosophers are Greek! Or is everyone in Greece a philosopher?
Of course, while you may be opposed to capital punishment and torture, the scariest thing about Philip's comment above is...
he fits right in.
I hope you enjoy your career in journalism.
I don't believe in jailing anyone for Holocaust denial either. Kollerstrom remains free to publish his hateful lies - and to be mocked and derided for doing so.
However, I choose not to entertain his racist lies and ramblings on my site. I choose not to run threads denying the Holocaust and publish hateful Judeaophobic material Interestingly, the 9/11 'Truth Seekers' don't seem to mind at all. From which I draw an inference.
Holocaust-denying threads were only removed from the 9/11 site when the Koller-storm broke. They had been up there for a year. Nobody seemed to consider this a problem.
They fitted right in.
I am enjoying my career in journalism and writing, thank you very much. It's great!
Yes I did - I read your response to Philip in full (and acknowledged it in my original comment!).
It is the inference you have drawn that I have a problem with, which was why I threw it back...
The fact that certain discussion boards tolerate users spouting holocaust denial in no way proves that those discussions are, by default, anti-semitic any more than Philip's comment infers your support or otherwise for capital punishment and torture. That was the point I was trying to make.
I'm glad we can agree that people don't need to go to prison for saying something didn't happen when it did. It amazes me that there are countries in Europe that sense no irony in jailing somebody for denying Nazi crimes.
Now my last post makes no sense. Revisionist!
;)
Have a nice evening.
I was being ironical when I alluded to burning heretics at the stake. However, the death of irony has been widely reported and I should have realised this.
What are we defending?
"Big brother is watching? Thanks to the liberal traditions of UCL, I am allowed to say what I like here. Contrast this with what I heard recently from a friend at the University of Texas. "I am reminded in print 4 times annually that I am NOT permitted to post anything political either via my web-site nor via UT e-mail. . . . .Land of the free, eh?"
Wait, so we've got our very own conspiracy concerning 7/7 now have we? Fascinating.
Don't tell me - that Person of No Discernible Religious Affiliation, Mohammad Sidique Khan, who recorded a video before he didn't go on to murder tens of people in London, wherein he said, 'Your democratically elected governments continually perpetrate atrocities against my people all over the world. Your support makes you directly responsible. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation,' was actually a Mossad agent who took over Mr. Khan's - who was a nice, innocent, peaceful, innocent, innocent young man - body with their Jew Magik and made him do it.
And those tube trains weren't actually blown up. In fact, they were replaced - again by Jews, uh, I mean Zionists - with full-scale models rigged with demolition explosives. And the real ones were whisked away to super-secret military installations for some reason...no wait! scrap that. What really happened was that, uh, buses and tube trains aren't real. They're like, uh, an illusion, man. An illusion perpetrated by the New World Order to make us feel comfortable as they strip us of rights we can't name and herd us into concentration camps like the Nazis did with the Jews. Uh, even though that never actually happened. And these camps are invisible and insubstantial which is why you can's see, feel or sense them in any other way.
Oh, and all this is totally obvious. So much so, in fact, that if you disagree then you're one of them. and by them I mean a Jew, uh, Zionist.
Death to the Jews! I mean Zionists.